After a contentious discussion on Tuesday, the North Carolina State Board of Elections (NCSBE) voted 3-2 at their meeting in favor of using a federal immigration-verification system to help identify non-citizens on the state’s voter rolls.
Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) is administered by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and is used by federal, state, territorial, tribal, and local government agencies to verify the immigration status and US citizenship of applicants seeking benefits, like Medicaid, or licenses.
Republican members, including Chairman Francis De Luca, Secretary Stacy “Four” Eggers IV, and Robert Rucho, voted in favor; while Democratic members Siobhan Millen and Jeff Carmon voted no.
Adam Steele, associate general counsel for the board, stated that DHS invited North Carolina to participate in a pilot program earlier this year, in which the state would upload a list of voters containing their names, dates of birth, and the last four digits of their Social Security numbers.
“I believe this is one of the best and few tools at our disposal, and I would suggest that we avail ourselves of it,” NCSBE Executive Director Sam Hayes told the board.
He also stated that the US Attorney for the Western District of North Carolina, Russ Ferguson, had written to North Carolina Division of Motor Vehicles Commissioner Paul Tine regarding a number of non-citizens who had been processed through the DMV and the motor voter registration system.
Hayes had also sent a letter to Tine, requesting full Social Security numbers for voters that they have on file.
“Commissioner Tine says the problem is fixed,” Hayes said. “I have never seen a satisfactory answer on how that issue was fixed. These people were just waved through the system, and many, I believe, without their knowledge. There may have been an English proficiency issue there as well. So, I believe that that problem still exists, and so does the United States Attorney.”
A federal law prohibits the removal of voters within 90 days of an election, so the program couldn’t be implemented before the deadline for the March 3 primary election.
Carmon said that since the board has to wait, there shouldn’t be a rush to pass a motion for it, and that he was hesitant for the board to have Social Security numbers in case there was a data breach. He said he didn’t know if the board was in a position to handle processing the required notifications.
De Luca said they have been talking about this for quite some time and that they weren’t rushing the process.
Eggers said that part of their obligation and responsibility is to determine that eligible voters can vote and non-eligible voters cannot, and that the SAVE database is the only tool available to them for conducting any verification on this topic. He also noted that other states have used it and have implemented it without any problems.
“I’d also note that apparently for many years, this has been used by agencies that administer federal benefits on the county level in all 100 counties, in all 50 states, be it any sort of federal benefits from Social Security to food stamps to WIC to unemployment assistance,” he said. “All of those items fall within the category of this SAVE database. We presently use it for our jury excuse process, as staff has indicated. So, the fact we’re moving forward with this would not necessarily be a shocking thing. In fact, the shocking thing should be why we have not done this so far.”
Eggers stated that there is a challenge process and a due process for anyone who wishes to dispute the information, but the fact that the system has been used for more than two decades without any reports of issues of anyone being denied benefits due to errors in their citizenship status means that it has a track record of working.
Millen raised concerns about the wording from DHS of denying voting benefits, which she said is a right, not a benefit, and the justification for using the program, since it comes from President Trump’s executive order.
“If Mr. Hayes is successful, everybody’s Social Security number will be sent to DHS and kept for 10 years,” she said. “They talk about the purpose of the program is to find these citizenship problems, but they also talk about how it can be turned over to ICE and CPB. So they’re saying two different things. They’re saying we’re going to help you scrub your rolls, but they’re also saying we might use it for some other kind of enforcement. I’m sorry, I don’t trust those people and the basis for which they’re using their information.”
Millen also said she thinks the action will open up the board to potential lawsuits.
Eggers replied that she was overstating the issue because there is due process and a challenge procedure.
“I guess I’m not sure I trust that the process in all 100 counties is going to be good enough to process, given the seriousness of this, and then the challenge would come to us, and then we can make sure that it is our responsibility to follow the constitution,” Millen answered back.
De Luca addressed Millen’s comments.
“So now we know you don’t trust the federal government, and you don’t trust our local governments,” he said. “Is there a government you do trust?”
Millen replied that she wouldn’t say she doesn’t trust the federal government and that she does trust the state’s county boards very much.
“I just think that I don’t agree with putting a hoop in front of these people who are already voters and we’re going to find out they’re voters and so we’re going to drag them down to some hearing, make them dig out some documents, potentially pay for some new documents, potentially get a new Social Security card with the correct spelling of their name, put all these appointments in, and have to go through phone trees,” she said.
Eggers told Millen that she was missing the other side of the argument and that they are going to find voters who are non-citizens, and that is the problem, to which she replied, “Very few I could predict.”
“We may very well have some races that would change,” he stated. “I mean, part of our obligation is to do it right.”
“We’ll know how many we find, but will we know how many people we prevent from voting because of all this?” Millen asked. “I don’t think we’re ever going to know that.”
“If we have a legitimate list of voters who are citizens who are eligible to vote, they should all vote,” Eggers replied. “I would encourage anyone eligible to vote, but the other side of that is if you allow those who are ineligible to vote, you have diluted and taken away the vote of those who are legitimate voters.”
North Carolina State Auditor Dave Boliek praised the actions of the NCSBE in a post on X on Tuesday.
Today, the State Board of Elections @NCSBE supported election integrity by voting to move forward with using the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements “SAVE” Program.
— State Auditor Dave Boliek (@NCAuditorBoliek) November 25, 2025
The SAVE Program is used to help government agencies verify immigration status information. It will…
A law passed after last year’s General Election shifted control of the board from the governor to the state auditor.