Friday Interview: Republicans Get First Shot at Drawing Election Maps

Campaign money and grass-roots support play major roles as North Carolinians decide who elect to Congress and the General Assembly. The election map-drawing process known as redistricting also plays a part in the process. The new Republican-led General Assembly is working on redistricting now. Becki Gray, John Locke Foundation Vice President for Outreach, discussed the issue with Donna Martinez for Carolina Journal Radio. (Click here to find a station near you or to learn about the weekly CJ Radio podcast.)

Martinez: This process is now underway at the General Assembly. Already, Becki, the stories we’re hearing and reading and watching are casting this as a purely political process. It’s no secret the Republicans are in control of the legislature now. Is this a process they’re choosing to do?

Gray: Of course not — no. This is something that’s mandated by the federal government. Actually, under our Constitution, this goes back to the provision of guaranteeing one man, one vote. So this goes really to the very fundamentals of our country, and that right to vote, and ensuring that all of our voices are heard. So on the one hand, yes, it’s a political thing. On the other hand, it just gets back to the very fundamental rights that we have here in this country. So what they do every 10 years is they count up all the people in the United States …

Martinez: The census.

Gray: The census, absolutely. And then by state, they take that, depending on the population of the state, they designate how many congressional seats each state will get. There was some thought that North Carolina had grown so much that we might add another congressional seat this go-around. We’re not. Compared to the rest of the country, we just missed that mark. So we will remain with our 13 congressional seats. So basically what they do is, they take all the people in North Carolina, they divide it by13, and that’s how many people will be in each of those congressional seats. They do the same thing with the 50 state Senate seats, and then again with the 120 state House seats. And they divide it up. So this ensures that all of us have equal representation, in Washington, in the state House, in the State Senate.

Martinez: How is this done? Is it done by computers, or are people actually sitting around and counting numbers and looking at maps? How does it work?

Gray: Both. Over the years and with the advances in technology, obviously computer programming and the way that you can do it, the way you can plug all those numbers in and redraw things, computers will play a very big part. This is not done by a computer program. Those decisions will be made by individuals. Just like anything else, you can feed that information into the computer and get different results. So the answer to your question is sort of yes and no. There will be computers, but there will be people who will be making many of those final decisions. And the Republicans, for the first time ever, will be drawing these maps. So, the maps may look very different than they did when the Democrats drew them. However, I go back to the rule [that] they have to ensure one man, one vote, so that kind of overlies all of it.

Martinez: Now, this is actually a bill that makes its way through the General Assembly.

Gray: Actually, it’s three bills. There is one bill for the congressional districts. There’s one bill for the North Carolina House districts, and one for the North Carolina Senate districts. And the way it works is, the congressional districts are kind of hammered out by both bodies. There will be a large representation from our congressional delegation in Washington. They will send representatives down. They will give their input on what they want those districts to look like. It is clearly a deliberative process that takes place. And then the bill has to be voted on just like any other bill has to be voted on. Generally, sort of traditionally, what we’ve done here in North Carolina is, the House will draw their map, and they’ll battle it out, and there will be all kinds of committee meetings and battles over that. When they get their map together and the map that the House passes, they will then send that bill over to the Senate for their approval. But generally, the Senate just puts a rubber stamp on it. Same deal with the Senate. The Senate will put their map together, send it over to the House, where it will get that rubber stamp. And then, interestingly enough, in North Carolina, as most of us are aware, the governor has veto power, except in a few limited situations. One of those situations is redistricting. So the governor cannot veto the redistricting bills — those three bills. So whatever the General Assembly comes up with is pretty much going to be what the deal is.

Martinez: I kind of wonder, Becki, since that is the case, essentially then whatever passes the General Assembly, that’s it — except there are some legal requirements, and we’ll talk about those in a moment. But I found it interesting that already, at least in the state Senate, we’ve seen one of the first committee meetings, and you had a real interesting debate — a little bit testy debate going on between some Republicans and some Democrats. The Democrats are on the committee, but it’s clear they realize they’re no longer in charge like they were 10 years ago.

Gray: Right. They’re having a hard time sort of settling into that, not only in redistricting, but in a lot of different areas. …

Martinez: Now based on the census numbers, they will determine, as you described, the number of citizens who have to be in each district. But there is scuttlebutt that, well, the Republicans are going to try to redraw the districts in a way that will benefit them. Other people say, “Yeah, but 10 years ago the Democrats did that.” Once it’s all said and done and these bills actually pass the votes that are required in the General Assembly, there’s a potential for legal challenge, and there’s a history of legal challenge.

Gray: There’s a long history of legal challenges in North Carolina. Ten years ago when we did this, the last go-around for this, there was a series of court cases — I think it was 11 different court cases that went to the North Carolina Supreme Court that actually clarified a lot of the rules that are now in place for this new General Assembly. So there was a series of lawsuits. I would anticipate — I think anybody would be surprised if there were not some lawsuits around this round of redistricting. However, again, the lawsuits that were filed in these court decisions that came down over the last 10 years have clarified a lot of those rules.

Martinez: Based on those court decisions, what are the basics that the General Assembly must follow when redrawing these districts?

Gray: Again, one person, one vote. So it has to be — whatever that number is, they have to stay as close to that as they can. There’s some deviation allowed. They have to comply with the Voting Rights Act, which was something that was put into place in the 1960s, … and North Carolina does comply with that. Not all states in the country do, but North Carolina does have to comply with that, so there are those considerations.

Martinez: And that’s very closely monitored.

Gray: Very, very closely monitored. As a matter of fact, because of that, because North Carolina is a Voting Rights [Act] state, our maps have to be precleared by the Justice Department. We have to get permission, if you will, get a checkoff, if you will, from the federal government, for these maps that we will submit. So again, this process is not as freewheeling as you would think. There are a lot of restrictions that are in place.