We learn in school about the separation of church and state. We’re told it’s an idea the Founders embraced as they developed the early structures of American government. Philosopher, theologian, and author Michael Novak tells a different story. An American Enterprise Institute scholar in religion, philosophy, and public policy, Novak recently discussed “Presidents and Providence” during a Headliner speech in Raleigh for the John Locke Foundation and the Ralph McInerny Center. He also discussed the Founders’ religious beliefs with Mitch Kokai for Carolina Journal Radio. (Click here to find a station near you or to learn about the weekly CJ Radio podcast.)
Kokai: Why speak on the topic “Presidents and Providence”?
Novak: For the last 100 years, most historians have not been very interested in religion. If you go back before that, … everybody agreed about these matters. But they’re almost forgotten. Today the ACLU and others put all their attention on the least religious of the Founders, especially Thomas Jefferson, who’s really an outlier. But if you take the top 100 Founders, that is, those who signed the Declaration or the Constitution, and throw in Abigail Adams and Thomas Paine and other most important people, 100, 120, whatever, about that number, and ask what was their view of God and of religion, you will find that they cannot be characterized as deists. A deist means a god who maybe got the world moving, maybe the intelligence and maybe the energy, but he doesn’t care anything for human beings or nations.
Kokai: So you’re saying that the Founders could not have been deists based on the type of god they discussed in their speeches and writing?
Novak: This is a special kind of god. He pays attention to what happens in conscience and in spirit, not just what you do physically. It doesn’t matter if you kneel down or bow your head. He looks into your heart. Now, there are not many world religions that do that. Hinduism? No. Buddhism? No. Muslims say they do, but I don’t believe it. And they do it within certain restrictions. But it is the very meaning of a Jewish and Christian God, said from the very first words of scripture. Adam and Eve are given a test of their free will. … Every chapter in the Bible is a story of human freedom. King David is faithful to his Lord in one chapter, unfaithful to him in another chapter. What’s he going to do next? And that’s the suspense of the Bible. There’s no doubt reading the Bible that the axis of history in God’s eyes is what humans do in their own heart and will. And nothing else matters so much. So it’s the god of liberty.
Kokai: Why did the Founders think religion was so important?
Novak: You cannot have a republic, a special form of government, without liberty. And you cannot have liberty without virtue. That is, if people don’t have really good habits of taking responsibility for their actions, thinking about the consequences, taking responsibility for their own destiny, if they can’t do that, how can they practice self-government?
Kokai: What about Thomas Jefferson’s famous statement about the wall of separation between church and state? What should we make of that?
Novak: What was the largest church service in the United States during the Jefferson administration? It was held in the U.S. Capitol building, with Jefferson’s permission and endorsement. In fact, he used government funds to pay for the Marine band to provide the music for the ceremony. Now, where was the ACLU when we needed them? Are they going to take Jefferson to court on this? My point is that we should be wary, as John Adams was wary, that when you begin a systematic attack on removing God from the moral lives of the people, there are some people it won’t bother. You know, you can be good without God, but a lot of people can’t. Or at least they don’t. They won’t. And so John Adams said we know from our own experience, look what has happened as the faith of our Fathers has cooled. What do we see? We see rising public drunkenness, rising disrespect for the law, rising adultery, and other things. And that’s the road to slavery.
You take a nation of people that cannot control its own appetites, you’re asking for a nation that wants to be governed by a tyrant. And so, … I don’t want to make the argument that we need God, that he’s necessary, because that makes God into a means of our purposes. The way Washington put it is that he begged his men in the army to comport themselves as Christian soldiers and to treat all the people with great respect — not to swear, not to steal, not to seize things — because he said, “How can we ask the help of the Providence of God if we don’t obey his law?” What kind of disconnect is that? We say “God bless America.” Remember how we sang it on September 11? Well, how can we expect Him to bless us if we are in wide disregard, individual by individual?
That’s the way that generation of the Founders argued it, and they had to because they’re making war on Great Britain, an irrational thing to do, the greatest army in the world, the greatest navy in the world. We don’t have an army. We don’t have a navy. We didn’t even have a munitions factory on this side of the ocean. So they … [depended] on Divine Providence and the help of Divine Providence. Well, if you don’t have a munitions factory or an army or a navy, you better depend on Providence. And they thought they had a chance because of the nature of this particular god, the god of liberty.
Kokai: What do we need to do if we want to emulate the Founders in their treatment of religion?
Novak: Well, it’s a matter of citizen by citizen, individual by individual. The faith of Americans is free and in conscience. You can’t force it. You can’t mechanize it. You can’t mass market it or manufacture it. But on the other hand, if you bring public institutions into its support in the background, it makes it much easier. People have to swim against the tide. Look at Hollywood. How often have you seen a movie which shows a family with somebody with cancer or in an auto crash and shows them in prayer? And shows them asking other people to pray for them? And shows the people who come to church specifically to pray for them and so forth? That’s a reality of American life, but you don’t … if anybody around the world watches American television, they’ll never believe we’re a religious people. The audience who watched the Super Bowl was the largest in television history, about 100 million people, I think. More people went to church that weekend than watched that game. And in fact during the year, more people go to church than watch all the high school games, all the college games, and all the pro games on television combined. So there’s nothing the American people do more than pray — fulfill their public duty to God.
Now, almost all our … presidents, maybe one exception, have recognized this in their inaugural addresses. Our inauguration of a president is like a religious ceremony. [It] begins with … an introduction that’s a bit religious, and then a sermon, and then the oath of office, and then the president always prays at the end. [He] asks God to bless America or more than that.