Sen. Fern Shubert of Union County is sponsoring a bill that would strengthen laws governing the issuance of driver’s licenses and voter registration in North Carolina. Carolina Journal sat down with the lawmaker recently to discuss the legislation.

CJ: Tell me about Senate Bill 531. What made you want to author this bill?

Shubert: Basically, what we’re trying to do is get the state to quit handing out real, government-issued identification without any idea of who they’re giving it to. It came to my attention over two years ago that we were giving identification to people who we didn’t know who they were. We knew that it was a problem, but we didn’t realize that it was a statewide problem until a bill came up in committee and a whole group of us jumped on it at the same time. Then we started comparing notes and we realized that this is one huge problem and it starts really with the governor making the decision that we don’t care if people come here and give false information.

CJ: Are North Carolina’s licensing law significantly less rigorous than those in other Southeastern states are?

Shubert: Absolutely. There are only three states in the country now that issue driver’s licenses to illegal aliens, and I know Tennessee is in the process of reconsidering that. The 9/11 terrorists had licenses from Florida and Virginia, but they have since improved their licensing process. We basically have a doormat out now saying, “Come to North Carolina if you want a real driver’s license without telling who you really are.” Sex offenders in California, you want a new life? Come to North Carolina! Lost your license driving under the influence? Hey, not a problem! Get another one with a different name!”

CJ: How easy is it to obtain a license here? What information do you have to provide?

Shubert: When this started when North Carolina’s then Attorney General Easley’s office told the DMV that just because the driver’s license supposedly requires a Social Security number, if they don’t have one, don’t hassle them. Just put 999 for the SSN. Since then, they have issued over 400,000 bogus licenses and it’s entirely possible that they registered that many people to vote that have no business voting in North Carolina. We have no idea, and the officials who run the state don’t want to tell us.

When we caught them, before 9/11, they wouldn’t do anything about it.

In the wake of 9/11, they realized they had to take action, so they began a massive publicity campaign saying they have tightened enforcement, but it is pretty much a joke. The proof of residency is hilarious: You can use a document from a foreign government, which we have no way to verify. You can also use business letterhead that you make yourself.

But, my all-time favorite for the lazy terrorist who doesn’t plan ahead, the DMV will run off an affidavit for those who have no proof of residence. They sign it and the affidavit becomes the proof. That’s why people come in by the busload to get their licenses, because we give them away more easily than anyone else.

CJ: What are some of the possible repercussions of North Carolina’s lax licensing laws?

Shubert: 9/11. We had the father of one of the 9/11 victims testify the last time we attempted to correct this problem. He said that if we don’t do something about this, the next terrorist attack is on our hands. People can come here and get a license and then go anywhere else in the country and use it as their identification.

Some states have said they will begin to refuse reciprocity with North Carolina licenses because they are a joke. There is a huge social cost. You can’t blame people for wanting to come here, but you can ask them to follow our laws. If you don’t have the rule of law, you don’t have anything. And we are, as a state, actively undermining the rule of law.

CJ: Voter fraud is also a serious problem. Do you think it stems from inadequate legislation, or could it be an enforcement problem?

Shubert: I have said from the beginning that the only thing significant enough to come up with laws this dumb is planned voter fraud. And there is a bill in the House, and I’m sure it’s a coincidence, for same-day registration and voting that says they have to accept the driver’s license for proof of identity for voting.

They issued over 400,000 with 999 for the Social Security number. We know they issue 75,000 a year using affidavits. This does not count the number of people using business letterheads or documents from foreign countries to get their licenses.

Minimum we have over one-half million phony driver’s licenses circulating. Personally, I think we have well over a million. My guess is that the cost to the state is at least a billion dollars.

CJ: Who opposes the bill, and why?

Shubert: Mike Easley, Roy Cooper, Wayne Herder. All the leadership within the Democratic Party. Last year, I tried to amend a bill that retail merchants wanted dealing with driver’s licenses and underage drinking. The House Majority Leader Phil Baddour came to my office and said that if I ran my amendments, he would pull the bill and have it killed.

I’d say it’s very clear that they don’t like this legislation. And they have already begun to attack us: we’re anti-immigrant, anti-Hispanic. I have no problem with Hispanic immigration, but I do think that they should come through the standard process so we know who they actually are.

CJ: What are the prospects of this bill becoming law?

Shubert: If the public gets behind it, it will happen. Our state is the biggest source of real fake IDs in the world. We’ve got to stop it.

Ashley is an editorial intern at Carolina Journal.