Today, Carolina Journal Radio’s Mitch Kokai talks with former N.C. Court of Appeals Judge Eric Levinson, who resigned his seat earlier this year to take a job with the U.S. Justice Department helping establish the legal/justice system in Iraq. This interview took place before Levinson left for Iraq. (Go to http://www.carolinajournal.com/cjradio/ to find a station near you or to learn about the weekly CJ Radio podcast.)
Kokai: People who have heard this story that you are going to be leaving the Court of Appeals and heading to Iraq working for the U.S. Justice Department — I would guess the main question on people’s minds is, “Why? Why do this?”
Levinson: Mitch, I’ve always had strong interest in courts and in justice, generally speaking. This is an opportunity to be involved in an effort to help enhance the justice systems — what we call the Rule of Law programs in Iraq — and to the extent that the Iraqis wish to have our help and want to collaborate with us, I think we have an obligation to do what we can to help them establish an enhanced justice system that is going to be in place for a long time.
Kokai: What is your understanding at this point about how things are different in Iraq than the way they are in our system that we are used to?
Levinson: Well, I think that, without going into a lot of detail, their history with their courts is very different. They do have a history. They rely on something that we call little more than Napoleonic Code. But they are interested, like any society is, or civilization, they are interested in a justice system that is going to be able to handle civilian crimes, is going to be able to be there to handle a theft or, you know, a homicide or whatever the case may be, in a system that’s going to be ready and prepared to handle civil wrongs. That is, people can come into an environment and be able to recoup money losses or other things of that sort. So there are certainly differences between the Iraqi system and the system that we know in the United States, and there are value judgments that will differ. But we have to respect what those Iraqi value judgments are. The Justice Department is there to collaborate and to assist to the extent that they want our assistance.
Kokai: We know there are plenty of challenges in Iraq, especially those involving the safety. What is your sense of how important it is to have a well functioning justice system in Iraq to help make some of these other challenges a little bit easier to deal with?
Levinson: I think a justice system is critical. Any community has to have an institution that is respected and that is credible, but for any community to thrive and move forward, it has to have a system that works and that is respected by the individuals in that community. So it is very critical, and it’s one of the things that really motivated me in large measure to leave my seat on the court. I’ve had 15 years with the state court system, first as a state prosecutor, and almost 11 years as a judge. So leaving the state court system has not been an easy decision. But this is a public service challenge that I am enthusiastic about, and it’s a rare opportunity to participate in an effort that could have a very long-lasting effect.
Kokai: What is your sense at this point about some of the types of things you’ll be doing?
Levinson: Well, I suppose you could sort of fit it into two categories. First, sort of the day-to-day challenge. Every day my expectation is that there are going to be a number of challenges — problem solving. It could be a power outage at a courthouse, it could be helping to make decisions or being involved in decisions about what type of case-management system that needs to be put into place in a certain courthouse. So there are day-to-day activities and challenges. The second sort of category is sort of a more strategic, or big picture, effort, and that is being involved in the discussion and participating, or at least sharing my thoughts about what might be needed in terms of capital improvements. It might be a new courthouse — where might a new courthouse be built — but those sort of strategic decisions, or bigger picture decisions that need to be made, and I’m looking forward to just being a part of that discussion and offering whatever advice and counsel that I can.
Kokai: Because the situation in Iraq today has to be so much different from what it was under Saddam Hussein. Do you have a sense that in a lot of ways, the judicial system is sort of a blank slate? Or do they have a pretty well established justice system that did not have anything to do with the old regime?
Levinson: What I can say now is that there are many Iraqis who are very interested in moving forward and enhancing the systems that they have. There is some new work that is being done, but whatever the military challenges are in Iraq, whatever the political challenges there are, many Iraqis understand that there has to be a civilian justice system that is going to meet the needs of the Iraqis. And so I’m excited because there has been some success in what we call these Rule of Law programs, notwithstanding, obviously, the military and political challenges that are still very much active.
Kokai: If this goes well, if your job turns out to go as well as you would like, how would the system improve or how would the system look when Eric Levinson leaves Iraq?
Levinson: Well, I think that the decisions about what the system is going to look like have to be made by the Iraqis. So I’m there, again, in a supportive role. And I’ll be part of the Department of Justice’s Country Team, it’s called, from the Department of Justice. But that sort of vision really needs to originate — and we hope it will originate — from the Iraqis. There are a number of — we don’t read about it a lot in the newspapers here in the States — but there are a lot of very well established individuals in the judicial leadership who are very capable individuals. And these are the people who are leading the system of justice and taking responsibility for what the justice system should look like. My expectations are realistic and I believe that there will be some successes. I believe there will be some real challenges and some bumps in the road, but overall I’m very optimistic about participating in an effort that I think is making a difference.