Today, Carolina Journal Radio’s Donna Martinez interviews John Locke Foundation education policy analyst Terry Stoops about the State Board of Education.
The interview aired on Carolina Journal Radio. (Go to http://carolinajournal.com/cjradio/ to find a station near you or to learn about the weekly CJ Radio podcast.)

Martinez: Well, Terry, first of all, help us understand what the state board of education is and how it relates to other people who say they are leading education in North Carolina. For example, you have the last several governors, including our current governor, who like to refer to themselves as “education governors.” We have a Superintendent of Public Instruction, June Atkinson. So, what does the State Board of Education do?

Stoops: The State Board of Education is the highest educational body in the state, and they set the policy for public education in the state, as well as have a large influence over the direction of funds for public education. June Atkinson is essentially a liaison between the State Board of Education and the Department of Public Instruction. And the Department of Public Instruction simply provides support to the State Board of Education and provides guidance as far as fiscal matters, policy matters, but they are not as powerful and influential as the State Board.

Martinez: Now, the Superintendent of Public Instruction is an elected position.

Stoops: That’s correct.

Martinez: But the State Board is appointed, right?

Stoops: That’s right. Eleven of the 13 members of the State Board of Education are appointed. The treasurer and the lieutenant governor are members of the State Board of Education, and they are not appointed by the governor. They are appointed to eight-year terms, and they are staggered, so it takes a very long time to change the State Board of Education.

Martinez: So, when someone is on the board, basically, they are there for a long time. That might be a little difficult, then, to try to make some changes if you have, essentially, a static group of people there.

Stoops: That’s true. And Gov. Easley has been able to appoint all the members, all 11 members of the State Board of Education, through two terms, but it took two terms as governor to get the chance to appoint 11 members to the State Board.

Martinez: Very interesting. Terry, you analyzed the vote the different board members made between 2003 and 2006, and you write about it in your new paper called “State Board of Repetition” — interesting. Now, you say that there is something going on there that you think is almost detrimental to North Carolina’s public school system. Tell us what you found.

Stoops: Well, first of all, the State Board of Education passes nearly every motion that comes before it. So, they have set an agenda for themselves, and they pass that agenda. And what I found was 94 percent of their votes were unanimous and 6 percent were passed by a majority. So, for the most part, every member of the State Board of Education is agreeing on almost every matter brought before them. And I should note that these votes are only votes on substantive matters, so they are not votes for approving minutes, or ceremonial votes. These are votes on things that really matter.

Martinez: Well, it sounds, then, like there is not a whole lot of diversity of thought or diversity of ideas on that board.

Stoops: I think that’s absolutely the case, and I really think that is the problem with the State Board of Education is there is not a diversity of views. That during every State Board of Education meeting, there is unanimous agreement on nearly every matter, and that is not how we are going to improve public education in North Carolina.

Martinez: It is rather ironic, I think, Terry, because as you point out, it’s interesting that a board that seems to have so few new and innovative ideas really is charged with trying to infuse the state public system with those very qualities.

Stoops: Well, what they call “innovation” is really the same-old, same-old. The innovative ideas that they have, many of which come from the governor’s office, ironically enough, are ideas that have been tried and have failed, or just ideas that are slightly modified from ideas that didn’t work in the past. So, what they call innovation really isn’t innovation, and that’s part of the problem.

Martinez: Terry, in your paper, you point out a few disturbing facts about the public school system in our state. Let’s talk about those. First of all, you talk about the dropout rate in North Carolina. Tell us about that and how it relates to the graduation rate.
Stoops: Well, the dropout rate is a yearly number, and it’s around 5 percent this year and has been around 5 percent for several years, but this is the highest dropout rate in several years. And the graduation rate, on the other hand, is a four-year number, and I think it’s important to note that although 68 percent of students graduate in four years, that does not mean that 32 percent are dropping out. That simply means that a portion of those students are dropping out, and another portion of the students are taking longer than four years to graduate.

Martinez: Which should be a concern, I would think, for us anyway, if someone is taking five years to get through high school. Why would they be doing that?

Stoops: That’s absolutely right. It is a concern because a lot of these students are being held back in ninth grade, and if you hold them back in ninth grade, it means that they are not going to be successful in the next four years of high school. So, I think that’s crucial, to make sure that students are graduating in four years.

Martinez: Terry, in your paper, you also point out this: You say the percentage of fourth- and eighth-grade students at or above proficient on the 2005 NAEP (National Assessment of Educational Progress) reading assessments is the lowest since 1998. That I find alarming.

Stoops: Yeah, and I think this is one of the things that has been overlooked — the fact that these national assessments are showing North Carolina to be falling behind. But this also shows that over the last few years, in the last nine years, that students in North Carolina have been performing poorly on these tests. And that shows that the State Board of Education has stood idly by while these students are performing poorly on national assessments.

Martinez: You also point out, Terry, that in terms of reading skills among minority students, we have some really alarming statistics. Among them, you say, among fourth graders, 34 percent of black students, 20 percent of Hispanics, lack basic math skills. And then when it comes to the reading, 59 percent of blacks, 54 percent of Hispanics, lack basic reading skills. My goodness, it’s 2007. How is it possible that we could still be having that kind of poor achievement among minorities?

Stoops: Well, in a lot of ways, I think it shows that this one-size-fits-all school system isn’t serving these minority students. And what’s even more staggering about those numbers is the four-year graduation rate — 60 percent for black students and 52 percent for Hispanic students. I think that, along with the test scores, shows a disturbing trend that our minority students are not being served well in our public schools, and they need alternatives.

Martinez: And in fact, Terry, you then point out that by the eighth grade, 47 percent of black students, 41 percent of Hispanic students, lack basic math skills. You also assess that for reading. Those numbers are just absolutely terrible. Terry, what happens then to these students, particularly minorities, who are performing so poorly, when they get out into the marketplace and this is their experience within the school system?

Stoops: Well, quite simply, they are not able to function at an adequate level. If you don’t have the math and reading skills, and if the schools aren’t providing those, then they are not functioning very well, and they’re going to have trouble finding employment or getting into higher education or trying to further their job skills. And this is the real problem, and it shows that in middle school, things are really disturbing as far as student achievement, student performance.